Druids and summoning

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Thanos
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Druids and summoning

Postby Thanos » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:46 pm

Monica now that you are 7 or almost 7 you may want to look at summon nature allys spells.

I was looking over the list and there is a some nastiness in there at 4th level. I think the 3rd are better then a call lightning.

There is a bunch of animals. All of them pretty decent at both 3rd and 4th.

these are some of the 4th level I like.

Giant stag beetle can trample like my Bison and is immune to mind effects

You can also summon a Bison

Giant wasps fly and have a nasty poison

Rhinoceros. Look out when they charge they hit like a locomotive.

Mephits there is like 10 of them all with different spells. Fog or obscuring mist causing you problems? Summon a Air Mephit and let it cast gust of wind. Can't get through a stone wall? Summon a earth mephit and cast soften earth and stone and list goes on and on. someone invisible? Summon a salt mephit it can cast GLITTERDUST!

Satyr wow this guy is the MVP of 4th level summons. Has a bunch of spells and at will SU abilities like charm person, suggestion, fear and sleep!

Here is the fun part you turn into small earth elemental (you should be using this a lot before you start an encounter it could save your life) and glide just 5' under the ground. Start casting your spell with complete cover and when you complete it just stick your hand above the ground and let it loose on the world.

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Re: Druids and summoning

Postby Xylona Ajani » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:14 am

I like it, I will look it up. Thanks :wink:

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Re: Druids and summoning

Postby Ozymandius » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:30 pm

As to the casting from the ground with the caveat that you "are" exposed and are subject to targeted spells as are your opponents.

Any "casting with your hand exposed" counts as Improved Cover (+8) for you and for your opponent when using any spells that require line of effect/line of sight (this also provides them with the Evasion feat if it is an area effect spell since they are provided the indicated cover).

Now I know what's going to be said regarding this but if you are attempting to use cover then under the Pathfinder rules they also get the same benefit as you.

Remember this when you cast offensive spells.

As for summoning there is no problem with this and you still get the benefit of Improved Cover (+8).

It's important to remember this little cover rule for all other spells except summoning.
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Re: Druids and summoning

Postby Dwraith » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:54 pm

Any "casting with your hand exposed" counts as Improved Cover (+8) for you and for your opponent when using any spells that require line of effect/line of sight (this also provides them with the Evasion feat if it is an area effect spell since they are provided the indicated cover).


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Re: Druids and summoning

Postby Ozymandius » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:48 pm

Wow Mario...

Its inferred from the rules within the book:

If you take cover then you also grant it to your opponent.

If your "hand" is the only thing sticking out of the ground that would be improved cover (+8 to AC). So if you try to cast a targeted spell the bonus to AC is applied to your target and area affect spells now allow for Evasion saves because of the level of cover.

You can't simply sit in the ground and attack through the wall, it doesn't work like that. You are either in a square or not in a square.

In the context above the SUMMONER can do this with no problem but if they go offensive with their spells they are subject to the cover rules.
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Re: Druids and summoning

Postby Ozymandius » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:53 pm

Right here under cover:

Improved Cover: In some cases, such as attacking a
target hiding behind an arrowslit, cover may provide a
greater bonus to AC and Ref lex saves. In such situations, the
normal cover bonuses to AC and Ref lex saves can be doubled
(to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved
cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack
to which the Ref lex save bonus applies. Furthermore,
improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Stealth checks.

If you "hand" is the only thing sticking out of the ground you have improved cover.

To determine whether your target has cover from your
ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line
from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes
through a square or border that blocks line of effect or
provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature,
the target has cover (+4 to AC).

Your square definetly is blocked at a point.
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Re: Druids and summoning

Postby Thanos » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:55 pm

Ozymandius wrote:Wow Mario...

Its inferred from the rules within the book:

If you take cover then you also grant it to your opponent.

If your "hand" is the only thing sticking out of the ground that would be improved cover (+8 to AC). So if you try to cast a targeted spell the bonus to AC is applied to your target and area affect spells now allow for Evasion saves because of the level of cover.

You can't simply sit in the ground and attack through the wall, it doesn't work like that. You are either in a square or not in a square.

In the context above the SUMMONER can do this with no problem but if they go offensive with their spells they are subject to the cover rules.


ya you are summoning so you won't be attacking. It is a full round action for a druid and I am not sure you need to have a hand above ground since you are doing it wild shaped and the spell doesn't need to be targeted. The summons can just appear right above you and it would attack the nearest enemy. So you would have 100% cover and not target-able while you cast. Regardless you can full round summon and when the creature appears next round 5' out of the ground and cast your next spell free from all cover. A druid could very easily stay under the ground and nova summons and there isn't much you could do about it.

I would say you need to have your head and hand out of the ground to target a spell.

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Re: Druids and summoning

Postby Dwraith » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:37 am

then you need to point out that your in the ground bro. Your talk about your hands giving you a +8 cover bonus didn't make sense till you pointed out your in the ground with only your hands exposed. I know the fucken rule, you weren't giving the whole situation to get that cover. And in truth, for LOS you must be able to see your target.
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Re: Druids and summoning

Postby grey » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:26 pm

If summoning hasn't changed.

You don't need to exactly target a summoning spell. You do need to give a square for the creature to appear.
which shouldn't be a problem even if you are underground and can't see. though if you're an earth elemental you should have tremor sense. and you can pinpoint what square to place your summoned creature.
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