pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby Xylona Ajani » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:53 pm

I am so taken back by this post that I do not even have the words or want to even express my thoughts. That is all I will be posting in regards to this topic.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby Ozymandius » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:29 pm

Dwraith wrote:I just don't want to be put in those situations again. I love running games, I enjoy GMing. I enjoy challenging you guys by playing the encounters intelligently and with tactics that monsters would do. Yet i also understand if i was an ass at running i would One-Mech the party like you would do in Left 4 Dead and then what could you do. I remember you guys when we went up to Con's Like Mega-Con and Tri-con about Certain DM's who only JOY would to cause as much party death that people would walk away from tables if he sat down. I told my self i would never be a dick like that, yet you guys couldn't stay focus on the game? If we all wanted to just hang out, couldn't we use some other form then this? You guys came to enjoy the game and not Get pissed about someone here, or just no pay attention that it was a pain for me. I sat there for almost 8 hours running you guys, with out stopping except twice to wish my friend David a happy birthday, and to talk to my girlfriend since i hadn't talked to her for almost 5 hours. The last 3 hours i sat there with a fucken headache trying to push the game on, trying to keep on Initiative and people focus on the game, but also not let it be a cake walk or no challenge that you guys talk and boast about something made easy. Sometimes i wonder why i still play....


As one of those "certain DMs" who revel in the death of other PCs it's because they were dumb enough to step into that situation. Richard LOVED getting me killed because of my own stupidity. When players are stupid you need to check them and bring them back to reality.

Uh...Mario, it's not being an ass (or a dick) if you one-mech a player as a DM.

You're monsters aren't stupid; correction, if they have an INT that allows them to be smart when attacking.

Matt did that to us last night as you saw and he almost obliterated a large part of the party because of our stupidity in our party line-up.

It is disrespectful to low-ball the players as a judge and to the writer of the module.

In fact that is an EXCELLENT learning experience for the players to realize that monsters AREN'T stupid because without reminding them of the dangers of the game when they are OBLITERATED then you're going to get even more grief.
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby Thanos » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:20 pm

I didn't kill anyone! you killed yourself ;). I don't love getting anyone killed I just enjoy giving you guys a challenge and hopefully everyone had fun. You had a really good team. I even let the players roll the reinforcements so it was totally in your hands. I must admit you do some pretty funny thing PJ. Recently jumping off the pyramid was a classic.


I think Mario played the monsters fine. Those were double monster encounter it is not really fair to one-mech all of them.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby Peewee » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:27 pm

::blinks:::

and Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, wanted me to play this game.... I think I'll pass.... (checks off PFS #15)

btw guys.. calm down.. i see things getting a little heated here...

everyone take a breath
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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby Peewee » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:41 pm

Ozymandius wrote:In fact that is an EXCELLENT learning experience for the players to realize that monsters AREN'T stupid because without reminding them of the dangers of the game when they are OBLITERATED then you're going to get even more grief.


You do know..

If game masters always played this way.. it would make for some very pissed off players.

Personaly I like my games to be a little more cinimatic.. how many times have you seen all the bad guys (or good guys for that matter) attack one target and ignore the rest?

Look at the fight in the tomb of the dwarven kings in lord of the rings for example...
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- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby teknoblade » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:26 pm

I have never had to subject myself to so much thoughtful BS, oh wait I have I have a Bachelors’ Degree. The adventure was very well written and as far things go it was DM well. Given the unique table configuration during the event I expected the game to run long. It also made it difficult to keep track of the combat, which the dm wasn’t doing, as someone volunteered.

As far as all the other drama at the game, Mario handled it exactly as per the dm guidelines. On the other hand we should all agree to a strategy ahead of time and then bitch when we fail our saves. This left the worst taste in my mouth as I was reminded why I don’t like tables with kids in it. Throwing dice, screaming, shouting, and throwing empty threats.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby Ozymandius » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:00 am

Congratulations on finally getting your Bachelor's degree Jose (heh, I couldn't resist that).

It wasn't that the event ran long it was some of the reasons behind why it went so long. Tracking combat should have been simple as we showed in Shadow Moon that if you beat the judge you go and if you didn't you go after him (I could care less what order that is) unless you delay or ready. You don't really need a tracker for it if you know (as a judge) where the players are above and below you.

As for the one-mech thing it's legitimate and the table on Sunday experience that.

Congratulations to Joey on surviving the cataclysmic beat-down that he received when he stepped up to do his duty to destroy a construct! He was almost dead twice. Not because he was stupid but because he was the major threat and the only primary damage dealer.

Of course the table also experienced the threat of imminent death of three characters in the final combat when they were under siege but they made it. You know why? Because my tactics weren't to kill, no that would be to easy when you have seven guys with Haste; instead I went for the disabled option which worked wonders and got them to shore up their defenses. A TPK sucks, but character loss through disability is a greater disappointment. And they saw I couldn't not simply kill them when they were down because my bad guys were Chaotic Neutral and we had a job to do (get a book) and the mission always comes before slaying a downed opponent (we don't need the guard chasing us).

Of course Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, is the exception and I don't think he realized this but the enemy attacking him had no weapons at the end of the combat and effectively committed suicide by going after him when the Edelon and Summon Monster had reach on him.

As to the bitching? That was expected and well-known in advance when the table finally formed.
Failing saves is not a big deal for me since I've died countless times as a result of those. It's a learning experience and one that several of the players have not gotten used to because THEY'VE NEVER BEEN IN THOSE SITUATIONS.

Character death, just once in a player's career, gives them something that survival does not. It prepares them for loss, the need for sacrifice (props to my fellow val'Mehan who died helping me steal hundreds of pounds of blast powder and accidentally lit the place on fire when the Green Ronin assassins showed up for me; never use a flaming weapon in a building like that people) and understanding that character death doesn't mean you fucked up (although it does in some cases).

It is that kind of learning (or the realization of IMMINENT death) that steels the player against those "outbursts" when saves are failed, critical hits confirmed and a PC is dropped in the process of a module.

Case-In-Point: I will never forget this (because I think it was the most dick move by a judge and also the FUNNIEST!). Rene Alfonso was judging us and Rene Hidalgo was nearly dead and was going to drink a potion; Rene did not attack Rene when he drew the potion but instead attacked him on the AOO when he DRANK IT! HE SUNDERED THE FUCKING POTION! THE DICKEST MOVE EVER EVER EVER EVER! But did he get all pissed off and freak out? No, he was like, "What the f*ck!" and then moved on.

P.S. That was the best death ever!
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:46 pm

PJ, you're forgetting about me taking back the sundering of the potion and letting him drink it even
though by the rules I had every right to sunder the potion on an attack of opportunity.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby Ozymandius » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:43 pm

See...you pussied out! :lol:

And further to that...no one EVER pulled out a potion when an AOO was possible again!

WE LEARNED!
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

Email: Finn_Durandall@Hotmail.com

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby thetrickygnome » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:59 pm

I was feeling merciful and Hidalgo told me "you know that's a really dick move."
But yeah, you're right. The lesson was learned regardless. ;)

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby Peewee » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:09 pm

thetrickygnome wrote:I was feeling merciful and Hidalgo told me "you know that's a really dick move."
But yeah, you're right. The lesson was learned regardless. ;)


You know... that was playing with GM knowlage....

There is no way that the bad guy would know what he was looking for in his pack... what if that was a bomb? teleport ring? or a fussy ball that turns into a monster? what if he was looking for a weapon that he could use in melee?

the "waiting to shatter the potion" assumes that the bad guy knew that he was looking for something he could sunder

If a player would use the same knowlage he would be shut down for playing with player knowlage.
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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby thetrickygnome » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:37 pm

Peter, the guy pulls out a potion. Just as it was a healing potion it could also have been a alchemists
fire or acid flask and the orc said "Let me smash it before he gets a chance to use it." Secondly, if the
PC is moving the liquid towards his mouth then it should be obvious to even a dumb orc that is coming
at the near dead PC with wicked intent (and a mean great axe) that the potion is going to help the
PC which in some way ro another which the orc does not want.

Besides, it even lists in the DMG amongst actions that provoke an attack of opportunity that sundering
a potion is one of them.

It doesn't really matter. It was like 3-4 years ago or something like that and it's the DMs perrogative to
been merciful or not hold back. It the player was being a dick all game long and was in that position I
would have shattered that potion in a heartbeat.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby MorganWolf » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:49 pm

You know... that was playing with GM knowlage....

There is no way that the bad guy would know what he was looking for in his pack... what if that was a bomb? teleport ring? or a fussy ball that turns into a monster? what if he was looking for a weapon that he could use in melee?

the "waiting to shatter the potion" assumes that the bad guy knew that he was looking for something he could sunder

If a player would use the same knowlage he would be shut down for playing with player knowlage.


Peter, you need to look over your rules again, rene is right if an action is obvious you don't need to be an evil genius to know what to do.
Being on death's door and instead of striking back or casting a spell you instead dig in for something out of your pack and go to drink it is obvious that it is something to help the drinker.
c'mon peter you sound like a novice player or something making that distinction; like he said even a moronic orc can tell the action.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby teknoblade » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:33 am

Well yes and no, he was right to attack the potion but was wrong to take it back. It continues to happen even today. The DM is running the table and is running a mindless brute and is instructed to attack a target till it drops. Why is that monster spreading out the attacks between the multiple threating pcs. If the adventure says run it this way then do so. Usually, things need fluff if the table is playing up and likely out of its reach. I remember sitting at a table of mago kids back in 3.5 and saying "if you all drop I'm taking your gear and selling it to pay for the res but if its too dangerous I'm gone" No more then two hours later, I finished what I could do in the adventure by my self. if i were dm, they would have lost all there gear.

on the other hand, if the adventure doesnt give instructions. dont play the creatures like morons unless they have an intelligence of 4.

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Re: pfs# 15 Asmodeus Mirage - Paizo reviews/comments about it!!

Postby thetrickygnome » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:50 am

The orcs had an intelligence of 8, more than enough to adjudicate attacking the potion which IMHO falls in the
realm of "common sense". Secondly, it's the DMs decision to be merciful or not at a table. There are two
situations that I don't use the "mercy rule" - 1) arrogant and obnoxious conduct at the table prior to the PCs
impending death and 2) someone caught blatantly cheatingthat still ends up in a deaths door situation. I also
have a little less mercy on PCs played by very experienced players but even then if they aretrying their best &
acting with respect I tend to cut them some slack. I played it as I felt was justified and I've seen the same
methods acted out at GenCon, MegaCon, ect.


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