Flame Wars: 4th Edition

The shiny new D&D living campaign from WoTC

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby ScrollMasterRob » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:35 pm

What all the players that have only played D&D in an RPGA approved setting need to do is to get involved in a good home game. We already own all the books, and there are plenty of races available for use--look at the Monster Manual, DM's Guide, and Races of Faerun. Those level adjustments can really hurt, but it could be fun to play something other than the "standard fare".
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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby MorganWolf » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:31 pm

And like all home campaigns only matter to those playingin it otherwise who cares about them.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Ozymandius » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:16 am

See, Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, cares about the game we are playing Rob...because he ain't in it...
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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby MorganWolf » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:33 am

If you say so, my statement was for all home games, c'mon if your not in one does anyone not in it care about it? - this is for all home games regardless of which one is being played at the time

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Ozymandius » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:58 pm

People care apparently about only two of them:

Earth 616

AND

Forgotten Realms: Darkness Falls

Since only they have their own forums apparently they have the majority of the interest between the two of them. Oh and Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, I got a guy looking to play in your system.
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Peewee » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:37 pm

Hay PJ is right
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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Thanos » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:00 am

This is my take on home game vs Organized play and is not directed at any one campaign.


Organized Play

Good
Large Pool of Players+DMS + authors
easier to find games
more chances to play
Con support
Lots of Mods

Bad
extra Rules limiting play
Way more politics
DM challenging players is frowned upon
crappy DMs
campaigns are macro oriented for the masses instead of the player
crappy players must be tolerated at the table
inconsistent mod quality

Home Game

Good

Modules and adventures tailored to the players
A few Players can directly effect the game world
Free form
DM free to challenge players


bad
DM makes or breakes the game (can be a good thing if you have a good DM)
Less fame for your characters(if you care about such things), no one outside of your group knows your achievements
limited con support



The bottom line is both are fun but a home game can be more fun depending how good the DM is.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Ozymandius » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:22 am

Most of the things you mentioned on the Bad side of the Home Game can be remedied before you even start.

I know why Greg neutered the hell out of the Turning Capability (you must have it in your hand, i.e. grapple fucks over a tun) because we were destroying everything and had no real fear of undead. In his games FEAR is a big component. Not so much at levels 1-7, but as you've seen Richard even the mighty have fallen to him which is unusual and the circumstances of the deaths were extreme in most cases:

Getting locked in a room by the party with Template Zombies (Go Party Unity!)
Almost bit in half by a Gargantuan dinosaur.
Getting eaten by a plant (at random) and then having party members beat the sh*t out of you.
Getting the sh*t kicked out of you by Leopardmen Monks (Go 2nd Edition!)
Killed by a para-elemental ooze (THROW ME THE BOOK!)
And death by negative energy, or lack thereof (Matt's Death is by far the funniest!)

And now we all turn to Josh who is the last original character from week 1 and we hope and pray for his death to teach him some humility like the rest of us were taught. And once he falls we then look to you Richard, as well as Rob and Dave to follow in our footsteps.

Trust me, once we break into the higher level wizard support spells (the were essential in the first home game) we will be much better off because as we learned there nothing is more important than your magic user. Oh a nice strong BDF is fun but the Wizard is your crowd control, and after the fights we've seen (i.e. Undead + Lizardmen + Paramental Ooozes all at one time) we need crowd control.

I provided that service in the last campaign with my archer firing shots all over the place and drawing agro (then hiding and moving away) and it worked real well but this time our magic users (and divine) aren't yet past level 5. When the group is finally all past level 5 and 6th level we will be able to hold our own much better.

Case in point:

That stupid disease artifact that we all fought around and got fucked up with. We were doing great, most of us weren't horribly crippled in the junkyard and it came down being able to hit her (+13 arrow shots were handy) and doing the damage 2d8+10+2d6 for a multi-shot is nice at 5th level.

When we reconvene next week (this sunday is easter and the game is cancelled) Greg has spent the past two weeks working on the next section and retooling it. I spoke to him on the phone and we are finally moving into the big time and a place were x4 cost "should not" be an issue for a little while! YAY!

And Thay apparently is going to offer us items at book price now!
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Thanos » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:39 pm

Ozymandius wrote:Most of the things you mentioned on the Bad side of the Home Game can be remedied before you even start.

I know why Greg neutered the hell out of the Turning Capability (you must have it in your hand, i.e. grapple fucks over a tun) because we were destroying everything and had no real fear of undead. In his games FEAR is a big component. Not so much at levels 1-7, but as you've seen Richard even the mighty have fallen to him which is unusual and the circumstances of the deaths were extreme in most cases:

Getting locked in a room by the party with Template Zombies (Go Party Unity!)
Almost bit in half by a Gargantuan dinosaur.
Getting eaten by a plant (at random) and then having party members beat the sh*t out of you.
Getting the sh*t kicked out of you by Leopardmen Monks (Go 2nd Edition!)
Killed by a para-elemental ooze (THROW ME THE BOOK!)
And death by negative energy, or lack thereof (Matt's Death is by far the funniest!)

And now we all turn to Josh who is the last original character from week 1 and we hope and pray for his death to teach him some humility like the rest of us were taught. And once he falls we then look to you Richard, as well as Rob and Dave to follow in our footsteps.

Trust me, once we break into the higher level wizard support spells (the were essential in the first home game) we will be much better off because as we learned there nothing is more important than your magic user. Oh a nice strong BDF is fun but the Wizard is your crowd control, and after the fights we've seen (i.e. Undead + Lizardmen + Paramental Ooozes all at one time) we need crowd control.

I provided that service in the last campaign with my archer firing shots all over the place and drawing agro (then hiding and moving away) and it worked real well but this time our magic users (and divine) aren't yet past level 5. When the group is finally all past level 5 and 6th level we will be able to hold our own much better.

Case in point:

That stupid disease artifact that we all fought around and got fucked up with. We were doing great, most of us weren't horribly crippled in the junkyard and it came down being able to hit her (+13 arrow shots were handy) and doing the damage 2d8+10+2d6 for a multi-shot is nice at 5th level.

When we reconvene next week (this sunday is easter and the game is cancelled) Greg has spent the past two weeks working on the next section and retooling it. I spoke to him on the phone and we are finally moving into the big time and a place were x4 cost "should not" be an issue for a little while! YAY!

And Thay apparently is going to offer us items at book price now!


My comments were not directed anyway towards Greg's campaign or Dming. Greg is one of the exceptions rather then the rule. His campaign is hard and I think most of the deaths could have been avoided if we had played together and stayed together as a team. Your death by the plant was totally avoidable but some people kept attacking after it was damaging you. If we all joined in trying to pull you out you probably would have lived. I think your new character is much stronger.

Matt just wanted to die, he wasn't even healing up between combats and was not playing cautiously like he usually does. I try not taking risks with my characters like some do. If I need to make a 19 or better on a d20 for a jump check I won't risk it during combat.

I agree with you that controlling the battlefield and disabling monsters is better then just damage out put. IMO damage mitigation is the way to go do whatever you can to reduce the enemys effectiveness to do damage.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Ozymandius » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:34 pm

I didn't mean to single out Greg in particular, simply to provide an illustrative example of possible problems and ways they were avoided.

Yeah, the party unity the first time around was much better, and I think that this time around several of the other people have underestimated what Greg might throw at them.

And to be honest, the characters we first played we didn't get much leeway in building them. We were told we have choices 1, 2 and 3. Nothing else.

Matt got boxed into a Cleric because of his actions in the first game, Josh doesn't know what to play and so we have this crazy Pyro captain that I think most of the party wishes was dead (He was much more effective as a BDF, sort of like a Mr. Grenade, pull the pin and throw it at the enemy).

Charlie sucks as a wizard, and no offense but so does Ramon, so if you read this Ray, no disrespect, but you suck; unless you have Arcanis spells you are better suited to the divine side of things (Jafar is pretty, but fire based so that's why I'm calling you down).

Me? I don't care what I play, but when I learned about the x4 cost thing it really hampered my ability to get the items I needed to make my two-weapon fighter effective (I needed masterwork weapons to offset my low statistics because I "thought" our money would go further). And when I was nominated as the BDF I was like, "What?!?"

But because of that we have this great new tradition in the second home game:

Cleric(s): "Hey, you..."
Guy: "What?"
Cleric(s): "I bestow upon you this platinum ring, don't mind the different colored blood stains or dried gore, it still works. I now name you the party's BDF! Congratulations!"
Guy: "What the hell? Dude...I'm a pirate, not a fighter! I throw alchemist fire and acid!"
Cleric(s): "Good luck with that!"

I think those platinum rings are DEATH in my opinion to whoever wears them and I hope the deaths continue in that position because it is just too funny watching people squirm to get away from that responsibility. We also lost our summoning powers being told we couldn't play a summoner Druid so that nixed part of our plans for damage control by letting summoned things beat up stuff.

For now I know that I am falling back into my Archer bit and I'm looking forward to my next level when I can use my Readied Shot. Check it out.

I ready an action to attack a person with Multi-Shot. They attack.

I shoot two arrows with one +11 roll doing 2d8+10+2d6 (Electricity) and because I used my Ready Shot I can inflict an additional total damage of +6d6 if I hit so my damage goes up to 2d8+10+2d6 (Electricity) +6d6 for an average of 50.5 a round. If I crit then it goes to an average of 82 damage, with the understanding that the crit only applies to one of my arrows so only 1d8+5+1d6 +3d6 is tripled.
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Thanos » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:16 pm

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gRM9NKQK54ZVXUKWWxjYmhbUPSoAD97MEEL80

They don't even mention DnD. It must be the suck brand.





Hasbro 1st-quarter profit falls 47 percent

By MAE ANDERSON – 2 days ago

NEW YORK (AP) — Hasbro Inc. said Monday that first-quarter profit fell 47 percent as retailers cut back on their inventory, but the toy maker said products tied into new movies like the upcoming Transformers film should boost future results.

The maker of board games such as Clue and Scrabble also said it instituted a salary freeze and is hiring only for critical positions in an effort to cut costs.

"We don't believe these results are a reflection of the underlying strength of our brands," Chief Executive Brian Goldner said in a conference call. Instead, he said, they were a by-product of retailers cutting inventory levels in the poor economy.

Profit for the three months ended March 29 fell to $19.7 million, or 14 cents per share, from $37.5 million, or 25 cents per share. That matched the estimate of analysts polled by Thomson Reuters.

Revenue dropped 12 percent to $621.3 million from $704.2 million. Excluding the stronger dollar, revenue fell about 6 percent. Hasbro has more than 40 percent of its sales in other countries. Analysts had expected revenue of $644.9 million.

Goldner said the company expected revenue to decline because of the economy, the impact of the stronger dollar and retailers cutting inventory.

At Hasbro's larger rival Mattel Inc., sales had fallen 15 percent overall in the first quarter because of the stronger dollar and cautious orders from stores that are still feeling the sting from the holidays.

Retailers have been lowering inventory levels after one of the weakest holiday seasons in decades. Hasbro suggested Monday that the worst could be over, saying its shipments fell in January and February but rose in March.

"In the U.S. we're probably through the worst of it," Chief Financial Officer David Hargreaves said, but added, "I'm not sure we are in some of the international markets," including Australia.

Star Wars, Playskool, Nerf and board game sales were strong in the U.S., but sales of Littlest Pet Shop, Transformers and Marvel brands declined. Internationally, Star Wars and Nerf sales were strong while Transformers and My Little Pony sales fell.

The first quarter is the least important season for toy makers. Last week, Mattel reported a loss of $51 million for the quarter ended March 31, but got a boost from heavily promoted the 50th anniversary of its Barbie brand during the quarter.

Pawtucket, R.I.-based Hasbro expects its results to improve as the year goes on, since it has products tied to several upcoming movies including "X-Men Origins: Wolverine," which opens on May 1, "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen," which opens June 24, and "G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra," which opens Aug. 7.

It expects revenue and earnings to rise in the next three quarters, though it did not give specifics.

"Based on the strength of our product line, we believe the two most recent quarters will prove to have been the most challenging for Hasbro in this economic cycle," Hargreaves said.

Hasbro shares fell 75 cents, or 2.7 percent, to close at $27.16 Monday.

"We would use any weakness as an opportunity to build positions," said Wachovia analyst Tim Conder, who reiterated his 'Outperform' rating on the stock. "We believe toy companies have an opportunity to post solid (2009) earnings growth within an overall challenging consumer environment."

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Thanos » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:41 pm

Anyone see the new miniatures packages?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=pr ... 0786952991

$15 for 5 minis. That is going to sell real well.

look at these things

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20090417

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20090422a

my god they are horrible. You see that harpy it looks like it is surrendering to the party. "Please don't kill me"
[img]
http://wizards.com/dnd/images/mi20090422a_harpy.jpg[/img]

and you can at least straighten the sword on the Yuan-Ti Fangblade

[img]
http://wizards.com/dnd/images/mi20090422a_yuanti.jpg[/img]

This is the the face of 4.0, greed gone wrong







another interesting blog I found and probably why wizards is going down the tubes. They laid off all the good people and kept the scrubs.!


Wizards of the Coast: how ignoring your audience brings your business down

The first round of layoffs at WotC isn't really a big surprise to D&D gamers, but you have to love the brilliant bullshit speak Greg Leeds oozes out on this occasion:

Wizards of the Coast is well positioned to maximize future opportunities, including further brand development on digital platforms. The result of this consolidation is a more streamlined approach to driving core brands.


Yeah, it's not a good sign when a company gets rid of the people who actually design and make the product. That's not streamlining, it's the end of the road. You can't outsource the very core of your business and companies who do that lose the ability to turn out anything.

Aside from that, the reasons why Wizards of the Coast needs to "streamline" operations are undoubtedly all about the dreaded 4th edition of D&D. While it's predecessor had a complex set of rules and settings, providing a huge fascinating multiverse to explore, 4th edition is little more than a half-assed attempt at bringing bland trading card rules to pen and paper roleplaying. Due to its Open Gaming License, 3rd edition had a rich ecosystem of third-party content and it quickly became the standard RPG system - on the other hand, 4th edition is a locked-down and tightly-copyrighted work that doesn't allow people to contribute unless they are official publishers willing to pay the license fees.

But the absolute worst thing that happened when they designed 4th edition is not even about all of the above. See, the reason why people play D&D is largely because it's a framework for storytelling. Unlike gamers who play WoW, trading cards or miniature tabletop, pen and paper players are in it for the content and not game mechanics. Typically, a pen and paper system is successful only when it enables users to experience cool stories and settings, and 4th edition actually created a system which prevents that from happening.

It's easy to understand where they came from when they made that initial design decision for 4th edition: in order to grow not market share, but to grow the market itself, complexity must be reduced and the amount of effort required by players (and GMs) must be reduced. This is the lesson of World of Warcraft, a game that historically made MMORPGs socially acceptable for the mainstream.

So Wizards set out to make a WoW for pen and paper gaming. However, reducing complexity can quickly cut away the essential experience of a game. Blizzard succeeded because they were able to preserve the essence and the fun of MMO gaming for most players. Wizards did not. 4th edition actually introduced content and rules that are so nonsensical, they effectively disrupt the suspense of disbelief necessary to enjoy a good fantasy story. And that was their audience: players and game masters who wanted to enjoy a good piece of interactive fiction, instead of a glorified board game.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:53 pm

Richard, this is why I think Pathfinder will work where 4.0 fails - because it is a slight modification of
the 3.5 system that people enjoyed without trying to dumb the game down so much that you feel as if
you are playing WoW on pen and paper. I hope that locally, when Pathfinder comes out as an organized
play system for home and con play that we will look into it and give it a chance.

Way to go Wizards. You stuck your heads up your collective asses and I don't know if there is enough lube
in the world to pry it out.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Ozymandius » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:17 am

Image

Please to kill?


I read the pathfinder system and while it is "cute" to say the least in its imagining of some things the statistics thing is what irks me...I mean 25 point buy? Wow, now that is old school. But other than that it looks solid.
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Re: Flame Wars: 4th Edition

Postby Peewee » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:27 am

Ozymandius wrote:I read the pathfinder system and while it is "cute" to say the least in its imagining of some things the statistics thing is what irks me...I mean 25 point buy? Wow, now that is old school. But other than that it looks solid.


I also like how they took the time to fix some the of the broken rules of 3.5 (grapple anyone?)

I like pathfinder ALOT...

Can't wait for Origins, getting my free copy :o)
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