My Lament

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The Heretic
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My Lament

Postby The Heretic » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:22 pm

I feel no real need or impetus to go to The Summoning this year to play. I have grown disenchanted with the role playing here in Miami. I tried to get into Witch Hunter, but it felt as though noone had really read the book and picked up on the whole feel and history of the setting and respected it. I see the same thing occuring in LFR.

Now I have played only one module, but there was very little chance to role play some clear and very cool story lines and character interactions were ignored and avoided. I am getting the same reaction from other parties as well. Huge chances to role play fascinating aspects are just passed by so as to get to the next fight.

Peter and I came up with the storyline of reforming the Circle Adventuring Company with the descendants of the original members, in the chance we had to do that, no go. I heard that an out of areaa group has taken two Saturdays to go through one Arcanis mod due to the intense role playing. Its a fricking game, not a race More anecdotal reasons. Here goes.

In our Saturday home game, my warlord character has had to make more skill checks using bluff to avoid political disaster that any rogue could imagine, There have been Saturdays without a single combat, and only role playing and skill checks that when done properly add elements to the game that do more to develop character than a hundred combats could do. Its the characters that are allowed to do that that are the ones we grow to love beyond the lifeless group of stats that seem to be developing in this region as far as LFR is concerned.

I have heard "I wont play this because its weak sauce." No one wants to play a half elf becuase it has no great powers attached to it, but it says in the campaign guide that the area we are in regionally (Aglarond) has a large half-elf population.

My call is for a group of really good roleplayers to unite in this area. That we should get together at least once every two weeks and really role play LFR. I would love to see what that group could and would do.
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Re: My Lament

Postby Peewee » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:38 am

I'll join that table....

I think there are some non-hard core RPGA players from SDS that may want to join as well... I have been thinking about this alot.
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Re: My Lament

Postby Highmoon » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:17 pm

Count me as potentially-interested in such a thing, depending on my time schedule and play dates.

As for WH, Fito, I feel for you. I had to go to play-by-email, but I found a group that totally groks the game/setting and makes it a joy to play.

Here's a suggestion: maybe you want to get out of the whole "Living" paradigm; play the same mods, but to heck with the Living part and all the baggage that brings.

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Re: My Lament

Postby MorganWolf » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:33 am

Here's a suggestion: maybe you want to get out of the whole "Living" paradigm; play the same mods, but to heck with the Living part and all the baggage that brings.


heres another suggestion- don't sign up to something you never intended to attend or help out in. You really pushed to try to be in it, but I didn't see any signs of help whatsoever and that makes me think. For a person that rates games or events, you practice an anti-social attitude with LIVING events where people meet from different backgrounds and places to try to game together so just stick to your SAFE environment of your little group of players who no-one cares about what happens in that campaign.


WE HAD A GREAT TIME - AS SOMEONE NOTED HERE:
Good to see many old faces and meet some new ones. Folks were very friendly and helpful throughout with this old D&Der who wanted to learn some 4th Edition.

I played a LFR game on Sunday with the cleric with no name, a pre-generated character provided by the organizers. I think our highlight was the "wonton" destruction that we enjoyed courtesy of Chang's Emporium.

Turns out that one of my students played at the convention on Saturday, but he has an 8th level character. The student outdoes the master, I guess.

Also good to see some postings from Mario Guzmeli on this forum. Long time no see, Mario.

Thanks to all for a nice Sunday afternoon

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Re: My Lament

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:19 am

Here's a suggestion: maybe you want to get out of the whole "Living" paradigm; play the same mods, but to heck with the Living part and all the baggage that brings.


heres another suggestion- don't sign up to something you never intended to attend or help out in. You really pushed to try to be in it, but I didn't see any signs of help whatsoever and that makes me think. For a person that rates games or events, you practice an anti-social attitude with LIVING events where people meet from different backgrounds and places to try to game together so just stick to your SAFE environment of your little group of players who no-one cares about what happens in that campaign.


WE HAD A GREAT TIME - AS SOMEONE NOTED HERE:

Good to see many old faces and meet some new ones. Folks were very friendly and helpful throughout with this old D&Der who wanted to learn some 4th Edition.

I played a LFR game on Sunday with the cleric with no name, a pre-generated character provided by the organizers. I think our highlight was the "wonton" destruction that we enjoyed courtesy of Chang's Emporium.

Turns out that one of my students played at the convention on Saturday, but he has an 8th level character. The student outdoes the master, I guess.

Also good to see some postings from Mario Guzmeli on this forum. Long time no see, Mario.

Thanks to all for a nice Sunday afternoon


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Re: My Lament

Postby Ozymandius » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:44 am

The Heretic wrote:I feel no real need or impetus to go to The Summoning this year to play. I have grown disenchanted with the role playing here in Miami. I tried to get into Witch Hunter, but it felt as though noone had really read the book and picked up on the whole feel and history of the setting and respected it. I see the same thing occuring in LFR.

Now I have played only one module, but there was very little chance to role play some clear and very cool story lines and character interactions were ignored and avoided. I am getting the same reaction from other parties as well. Huge chances to role play fascinating aspects are just passed by so as to get to the next fight.

Peter and I came up with the storyline of reforming the Circle Adventuring Company with the descendants of the original members, in the chance we had to do that, no go. I heard that an out of areaa group has taken two Saturdays to go through one Arcanis mod due to the intense role playing. Its a fricking game, not a race More anecdotal reasons. Here goes.

In our Saturday home game, my warlord character has had to make more skill checks using bluff to avoid political disaster that any rogue could imagine, There have been Saturdays without a single combat, and only role playing and skill checks that when done properly add elements to the game that do more to develop character than a hundred combats could do. Its the characters that are allowed to do that that are the ones we grow to love beyond the lifeless group of stats that seem to be developing in this region as far as LFR is concerned.

I have heard "I wont play this because its weak sauce." No one wants to play a half elf becuase it has no great powers attached to it, but it says in the campaign guide that the area we are in regionally (Aglarond) has a large half-elf population.

My call is for a group of really good roleplayers to unite in this area. That we should get together at least once every two weeks and really role play LFR. I would love to see what that group could and would do.



The Half-Elf is more powerful than the Dragonborn race. It's an ELF and a HUMAN in one package that allows you to access BOTH FEAT TREES! I got your dift Adolpho, the true problem is that a split has occurred between the gamers of Miami and while 4.0 is tempting it does not offer some of the complexities that we are used to. And I agree with you, the roleplaying aspect is very important and in our own homegame it was just as prominent as our combats.

I tell you our best bet is to begin a homegame setting and simply continue to expand it convention to convention and encourage the players in it to voice their opinion on how to improve an evolving story line.
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Re: My Lament

Postby Highmoon » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:56 am

Morganwolf, and Rene, see my reply HERE.

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Re: My Lament

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:32 am

I did not see your response Daniel. I was rather suprised at Ralphs response myself, hence the way
I responded. Don't read any aggression into my responses as there is none intended.

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Re: My Lament

Postby Highmoon » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:39 am

I'll reply to this part here because it directly relates to Fito's original topic:
MorganWolf wrote:
Here's a suggestion: maybe you want to get out of the whole "Living" paradigm; play the same mods, but to heck with the Living part and all the baggage that brings.

For a person that rates games or events, you practice an anti-social attitude with LIVING events where people meet from different backgrounds and places to try to game together so just stick to your SAFE environment of your little group of players who no-one cares about what happens in that campaign.

My suggestion to Fito was only that, a suggestion, completely unrelated to The Summoning or the RPGA. He expressed a problem when playing Living events, and I suggested he think about dropping off the Living paradigm (and here's the important part) because it might help the style of play he's looking for.

It's no secret I, personally, do not like the Living style of games. I know they have some great features, and my dislike of the format does not preclude me recognizing and even recommending them to people who are looking for the kind of play experience they deliver. What I don't like is the preconception that Living games are all the gaming there is to be had, and sometimes it's good to remind people of that, not in a "Living games are teh sucks" way, but more in a "Remember there are other ways to game aside from Living style."

So please, can the sanctimonious attitude.

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Re: My Lament

Postby Highmoon » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:40 am

thetrickygnome wrote:I did not see your response Daniel. I was rather suprised at Ralphs response myself, hence the way
I responded. Don't read any aggression into my responses as there is none intended.

None was perceived, I merely pointed it out in the interest of full information.

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Re: My Lament

Postby Peewee » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:49 am

MorganWolf wrote: WE HAD A GREAT TIME....


And once again Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, misses the point, and in Rene's dislike for Fito.. so did he....

LC and LG where fun because we ROLEPLAYED what was going on... did you two forget the intensity of roleplying the knights of Ulek (before we had to change or name) when we all chiped in to get DiDi his first Magical weapon? When your character Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,, fell to his knees in the arena and rased the elfes that fought beside you?

I think you did....

You show how someone had a good time... but the post had nothing to do with the role playing, it had to do with dealing damage and seeing old frineds.. something we could have done playing space hulk.. and I bet it would have had the same depth of role-playing..

Congrads Rene and Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,.. you missed the point...
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Re: My Lament

Postby Peewee » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:55 am

Highmoon wrote: "Remember there are other ways to game aside from Living style."


Amen to that!

Highmoon wrote: So please, can the sanctimonious attitude.


Its kind of hard for Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, not to be on the defensive... it's just the way he is.

After a wile you learn to deal with it and accept it as part of who he is.

hell all of you had to accept the fact that I sound much larger then I am...
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- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: My Lament

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:20 am

And once again Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, misses the point, and in Rene's dislike for Fito.. so
did he....

Congrads Rene and Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,.. you missed the point...


Peter, with all due respect, when it comes to me in particular, DO NOT BRING THIS MATTER UP
ON THIS BOARD!!! It's been civil for a while and I want no part of the poison that plagued this
baord in previous months. Keep comments like this to yourself please.

And no, I did not miss the point. I tried to respond to the discussion of 4.0 in another thread like 2
minutes ago and my computer at work ate the damn message.

1) The roleplay element of 4.0 is not as it was in 3.5 but then again on a local level, gameplay of D&D
for 3.5 was on a decline for many months leading up to the emergence of 4.0. So while 4.0 has it's
flaws, you cannot fault it for the gaming issues that existed BEFORE it came about.

2) I really dislike the lack of templates and formats in the creation fo some of the 4.0 scenarios in
regards to creatures. Either the rules are exceedingly loose or do not exist and many of the unique
creatures we face in scenarios leave me asking myself "what book did that come from" to which the
answer is "none". In 3.5, the CR system was flawed but at least it had structure and the numbers
added up and made sense. Granted, you could come up with some very outlandish and sickly tough
creatures at certain levels ( Ex: half-dragon phase spiders ) but at least you knew where they came
from and how they came about. D&D 4.0 lacks this and for someone like myself who would like to
write for 4.0 someday, it's very frustrating.

I like 4.0 but admittedly I have not connected with it yet. Maybe in time I will and maybe in I won't but
I understand some of the reasons people are turned off my the system. Still, before the angry mob forms
with pitchforks and torches and starts attacking 4.0 consider that D&D has been declining locally way
before 4.0 came about. Sorry to use this as an example Peter but Living Arcanis was once a vibrant &
much loved system and getting people to play it on a regular basis as easy as breathing. Yet now, at
least on a local level, in the place where LA was essentially born from the bright minds of people like
Henry Lopez and yourself, it is all but forgotten and rarely if ever played ( which astounds me given how
it is leading to the end of a very powerful story arc ).

So stop pinning so much on the lack of response to 4.0 because the problem began way before 4.0 came
out and the local gaming trends do alot ot back up what I say. D&D 4.0 is not perfect and it may or may
not be better than 3.5 but the problems that exist locally in D&D play go far beyond the scope of a single
gaming system.

And again, I will ask that you do not mention me and Fito in the same sentence again on this forum. I
chose my path and he chose his and that's fine by me and I'll leave it at that for the sake of maintaining
some civilty on this forum.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Re: My Lament

Postby Peewee » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:04 pm

thetrickygnome wrote: So stop pinning so much on the lack of response to 4.0 because the problem began way before 4.0 came
out and the local gaming trends do alot ot back up what I say. D&D 4.0 is not perfect and it may or may
not be better than 3.5 but the problems that exist locally in D&D play go far beyond the scope of a single
gaming system.


It's not the lack of Responce to 4.0 Rene, again I think you are missing the point. It's the way people are playing the game that has changed.. For example, in my home game on saterday nights I have my table RP the hell out of the game, when I killed off a major NPC one of the players had her character sit in the corner for almost the entire night, untill she gutted someone in pure rage and sarrow.

Its the way we are approching the game, we want to "hurry up and get it done" insted of getting our head into the game and into our charatcers.

thetrickygnome wrote: And again, I will ask that you do not mention me and Fito in the same sentence again on this forum. I
chose my path and he chose his and that's fine by me and I'll leave it at that for the sake of maintaining
some civilty on this forum.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso


Agreed, I'm sorry I typed without thinking
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Re: My Lament

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:21 pm

It's not the lack of Responce to 4.0 Rene, again I think you are missing the point. It's the way people are playing the game that has changed.. For example, in my home game on saterday nights I have my table RP the hell out of the game, when I killed off a major NPC one of the players had her character sit in the corner for almost the entire night, untill she gutted someone in pure rage and sarrow.

Its the way we are approching the game, we want to "hurry up and get it done" insted of getting our head into the game and into our charatcers.


This is a good point but at the end of the day the module itself cannot dictate what approach a player
takes to the game. You can have the same module and yet have 2 players approach it completely
differently but it is still the same module. I think part of it is the somewhat formula-like approach that
4.0 takes versus the old 3.5 style but alot of it and IMHO most of it falls on the individual player and what
style they want to play. Some people are roleplayers, some people are roll players, some like the hack &
slash and don't care about the story while others put the sotry before the combat. You may or may
not be able to argue that 4.o provides less opportunity or emphasis on roleplaying but then again you
could also argue that if a group of players make a concerted effort to disregard the roleplaying element
and go straight to the fights or action dice rolling then it's their choice. I will say this much though - a
module with a lackluster story and poor foundation can certainly drive players to disregard the roleplay
aspect of it and hunger for the combat, hence the reason that my scenarios always put the story before
the combat. Sure, I will probably forever be remembered as "the wordy Triad guy whose wrote mods that
were 10,000p pages long" but one thing is for sure - players in my mods got a crapload of roleplay
opportunities and a strong story and as long as this is the case, I can live with the stereotyoe because I
know I did my job.

I think the balance of roleplay by players versus the mod is half and half. The mod has to give you a good
chance to do it but the players have to be willing to also do it when the chance comes along and do so in
an acceptable manner. Plus roleplay at home games is easier because there are rarely any time limits.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso


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