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Arcanis

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Postby Dwraith » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:28 pm

i would be willing to play or DM. which ever you need bro...
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Dr. Nicholas Rush, "I'm afraid thats a failure of imagination."
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I agree with this..

Postby thetrickygnome » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:42 pm

Why wouldn't it work at a store peter?
Pay to play, is the name of the game.
If you're too lazy or don't have the time to organize or don't want to eat mods then pay for someone elses time.
This is a awesome solution to the GM problem.


Peter, I think Albert is right here. It's cool that you have the rotating
system of play at your house for eating mods but how many people
there run mods that they have never played before themselves versus
mods that they have played and not eaten thus they do not mind
running it because they have already reaped the benefits? The sad
reality is that sometimes in order to effect positive change you have to
be an asshole and lay down the law with clenched fist and loaded gun.
You are putting forth the time and effort for this and the people who
sacrifice themselves for you should be rewarded.

I would do this. Have the people who play the mod initially pay the
DM who eats the mod in orderto open it up for for Dms to run be
paid a flat commision for doing so - Example: $10 total. Then when
they have a game day at the store, have everyone who plays the mod
put up $3 like they do in Joels store.

At the end of the day, if two tables of 6 people played the mod and
let's say for example Albert was the person who initially ate the mod
at your house to open up the DM pool but then I was part of the play
group that Albert Dmed and was willing to run the mod at the store
in addition to Albert then each player should pay us $3 each for our
time. In the end, Albert ends up with $28 and I end up with $18 -
Albert is justified in getting more because he was the person who
made the greatest sacrifice by not being able to play the mod or
benefit from it.

Also, build your DM pool from two seperate tables of 5-6 players so
that the sacrifice and financial rewards are evened out. I think what
you are doing at your house is fantastic Peter but it is a microcosm of
what needs to be done on a larger scale and keeping it only in your
house does not serve the greater good or encourage an even-handed
approach to the problem.

Like I said Peter, the power is in your hands and there is a way in which
you can use it without abusing it and at the very least showing people
the way things should be done. If afterwards they want lazy slackers
like Albert or leeches that just sponge off other peoples generosity
then at least hit them in the wallet and reward those who make the
sacrifice.

Albert, you and me are on the same page with this. I wish we had more
time to put it to work but Peter hopefully you havea glimpse of what is
possible.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Re: I agree with this..

Postby Peewee » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:35 am

Why wouldn't it work at a store peter?
Pay to play, is the name of the game.
If you're too lazy or don't have the time to organize or don't want to eat mods then pay for someone elses time.
This is a awesome solution to the GM problem.


Because a game store will not let someone come in and charge for something they can charge for... besides how many times have we heard sh*t because sunshine charges? same thing

Peter, I think Albert is right here. It's cool that you have the rotating
system of play at your house for eating mods but how many people
there run mods that they have never played before themselves versus
mods that they have played and not eaten thus they do not mind
running it because they have already reaped the benefits? The sad
reality is that sometimes in order to effect positive change you have to
be an asshole and lay down the law with clenched fist and loaded gun.
You are putting forth the time and effort for this and the people who
sacrifice themselves for you should be rewarded.


Ahhh see you have not played at my house have you? you need to eat a mod or run two mods you have played in the past. And now that we have played all the mods we can.. guess what, you need to eat a mod.

Hell I got everyone to eat a mod, except Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, who ran 3 adventures to make up for his lack of eating a mod... I dont know about you, but it seemed like an even trade to me.



I would do this. Have the people who play the mod initially pay the
DM who eats the mod in orderto open it up for for Dms to run be
paid a flat commision for doing so - Example: $10 total. Then when
they have a game day at the store, have everyone who plays the mod
put up $3 like they do in Joels store.


Up to the store.. but if I was the owner of the store.. I would say no, because thats money my store could be making. Think about it, thats 3 bucks per person that someone could have spent on books in my store.

Peter but it is a microcosm of
what needs to be done on a larger scale and keeping it only in your
house does not serve the greater good or encourage an even-handed
approach to the problem.


Now this is true.....

Like I said Peter, the power is in your hands and there is a way in which
you can use it without abusing it and at the very least showing people
the way things should be done. If afterwards they want lazy slackers
like Albert or leeches that just sponge off other peoples generosity
then at least hit them in the wallet and reward those who make the
sacrifice.


again, stores call, not mine.. I dont know if they will go for it, but I can do the "pay for play" for all slot 0z at my house for said game days.. that may work out.
Peter B
PCI Rules Developer & StatMonkey
Paradigm Concepts

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.”
- Thomas Jefferson

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Come now Peter

Postby thetrickygnome » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:05 am

again, stores call, not mine.. I dont know if they will go for it, but I can do the "pay for play" for all slot 0z at my house for said game days.. that may work out.


Dude, it's very simple. Six people sit down to play and the DM is at
the table. Once the players are set, you simply call them OUTSIDE of
the store as a group and collect the money there. What happens
outside of the store is between the people outside the store. Then you
walk back in and start playing. And please don't give me this crap
about the Sunshine factor because people who go to play at Sunshine
rarely if ever complain about paying 3 bucks to play a game. In fact,
I can't remember the last time someone complained.

Your home method of play is cool but it does not resolve the issues
at hand as much as you'd like. Okay, so people run mods they already
played in order to not eat a mod. Okay, so now there are no mods
left to play that can't be played without someone eating them. Looks
great right? WRONG!!! Those people who ran mods that have already
been played will now NOT play at the table because then they will have
to eat a mod, which they won't do. So once the mods that have been
already played by some poeple locally have run out, you will once again
have to deal with the imbalanced practices that plague our local area.
For all the anger that we have at people who talk sh*t about us as a
region, when it comes to DMing balance and fairness, we deserve
amost every bad comment we get.

Peter, IMHO, you are complicating an issue uneccesarily when you
have a chance to set a strong example of what and how things should
be done. For as much good as some of the local organizers have done
in promoting gaming and I applaud them for this, when it comes to
fair and equitable running / eating of mods, THEY REALLY SUCK ASS
WHEN IT COMES TO DOING THINGS THE RIGHT WAY. You are one of
the leaders of the gaming community and people respect you. Take a
stand bro and set an example on how things shoud be done fairly. If
you don't then you're just going to end up either inadvertantly becoming
a victim of the abuse or accidentaly perpertuating it.

You know what. I'll lay it one the line right now. If I ever have to run
or eat an LA mod I am saying it right here and now - people will have
to pay me some cash. End of story. There you have it. Done.

Oh and it's so funny how when the subject on eating mods and taking
fair responsibility for this pops up on this board, there is a general
silence in responses. You people should be ashamed of yourselves for
continuing this disgusting abuse and turning a blind eye to it.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Peewee » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:19 am

Rene,

1) people don't bitch at sunshine because they have a chance to win store credit. But they have bitched to me about it when we have not been in the store.

2) I don't want to f*ck up any chance of this new store doing well... people feeling like they need to pay to play can become a problim. I remember how people bitched because they thought that outland was going to charge.

3) At my house we have been runing thigs very smoothy, I'm sure I can port it to the store/gamedays. I was thinking that the game at my house will become/act like the slot 0 for the gameday, thus.. if you want to play at my house.. you need to eat a mod.. pure and simple. Now if you don't play at my house, you will be way behind the curve in mods, because unlike the game days, we will be running LA once every other week at my house.

4) You insist that people have to pay you to run any LA, you better do the same for LG, LFR, and Blackmoor.. if you don't I will call you on it.

5) The only way I will be cool with the 'pay to play' is if the eating GM for the gameday gets paid... if you play the slot 0. Also maybe if you run a mod at a store game day everyone at the table has to pich in and buy you lunch? maybe if you run 2 events we can get a free store membership for that GM?
Peter B
PCI Rules Developer & StatMonkey
Paradigm Concepts

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.”
- Thomas Jefferson

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Postby grey » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:45 am

I see where peter is going with this.

I say it would have to be on a case by case basis.
If not cold hard cash. then maybe a GM diner/lunch/breakfast/snack/drink fund of some sort.

However I think that the store is in no way loosing anything.
they have people in the store.
those people will always end up buying something either that time or in the future.

they can always sell snacks or drinks to the gamers and make money that way.

we can always work out a deal with the store that they get a cut or something from the money the gm makes.
whatever we can figure it out.

the whole point here is that peoples time is valuable.

being a leecher and not contributing to the community is not necessarily a
bad thing. some of us are busy and can't contribute.
some of us would like to contribute but would rather not because we'd rather play.

that being said there should be a system or recompense for those that do want to contribute.
and if you are actually organizing other people to play. and or you wish to gm people. your recompense prize should be very high.

we really should talk about this and figure it out.

And you know what. If people complain. Tell them to either suck it up or get off their arse and start organising their own free games.
you know we work hard so that people can game. we've been doing this for a few years now.
no one else besides us has come up to the bat and put down time, effort and money to do this stuff.
so I don't want to hear any bitching by anyone.
Knowledge is power, Power corrupts, Study hard be evil.
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Whatever then... score one more for the leeches then

Postby thetrickygnome » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:00 am

1) people don't bitch at sunshine because they have a chance to win store credit. But they have bitched to me about it when we have not been in the store.

2) I don't want to f*ck up any chance of this new store doing well... people feeling like they need to pay to play can become a problim. I remember how people bitched because they thought that outland was going to charge.

3) At my house we have been runing thigs very smoothy, I'm sure I can port it to the store/gamedays. I was thinking that the game at my house will become/act like the slot 0 for the gameday, thus.. if you want to play at my house.. you need to eat a mod.. pure and simple. Now if you don't play at my house, you will be way behind the curve in mods, because unlike the game days, we will be running LA once every other week at my house.

4) You insist that people have to pay you to run any LA, you better do the same for LG, LFR, and Blackmoor.. if you don't I will call you on it.

5) The only way I will be cool with the 'pay to play' is if the eating GM for the gameday gets paid... if you play the slot 0. Also maybe if you run a mod at a store game day everyone at the table has to pich in and buy you lunch? maybe if you run 2 events we can get a free store membership for that GM?



My responses:

1) Then let them bitch. And while they're bitching remind then that the
people who are writing the mods that they want to play FOR FREE take
great time and effort to do so. People get away with stuff because there
is no enforcement policy. Remind them that the people who are DMing
the mod for their benefit could be doing somethign else with their time.
Again, if you don't press the issue then the abuse continues.

2) For the beginning, I understand where you are coming from with this
and I agree. Down the road however, when you start getting the same
people DMing mods and eating mods and the same people conveniently
disappearing or ignoring the call for help to eat a mod so it can run,
your noble act of selflessness will become nothing more than a part of
the ongoing cancer that has plagued this gaming community forever.

3) This is a joke.. please tell me this is a joke. Let me paint you a
picture and give you a strong injection of reality. No one cares whether
they get in on the slot 0 table, they only care about playing the mod.
Thus you will have people who will say "Screw that Slot 0 crap - I'll just
play at the store over and over where I have no responsibility to eat a
mod EVER. Also, the power curve will work for those people at your
house but the vast majority of other players will just sit back and wait
for the DM guinea pig at the store or get someone from the Slot 0 group
to run it for them on the side. Again, noble intentions but this plan is like
a dam with 100 holes in it and not enough material to seal the damage.
Sooner or later, the plan will go "BOOM!!"

4) No, I'm going to use LA an an example and go from there. Also, I
have already been instituting a policy similiar to this long before you
posted here. I've told Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, many times that I refuse to play an LG or
Blackmoor scenario unless A) the writer is DMing it and thus cannot run
it anyways and B) the person DMing it has already played it and thus is
not eating it for us. I will do the same thing for LFR and for Blackmoor.
And please don't call me on anything because if so then you need to call
out the slew of local people who said they would be a part of the DM
rotation system and then basically flushed it down the toilet and didn't
follow through. So if you start throwing the proverbial stone, I suggest
you have a strong arm that does not tire easily and a truckload of rocks
because you will need both.

5) I can compromise on #5 because the DM eating the mod should
definitely get paid but they should get paid by not only the Slot 0
group but also by everyone attending the gameday because they are
the primary source of DMs for that gameday. Example- If Mr. X DMs
a mod for 6 people at your house and then Mr. X and 2 other people
from his slot 0 game at your house ru nthe gameday at the store then
Mr. X should get paid by the slot 0 people and also by the players at
the store for the gameday because if it was not for Mr. X then niether
the Slot 0 people nor the players at the game store would get to play
the mod at all, thus there would be no gameday to begin with.

Dude, you do what you want. It's your campaign and it's your gameday.
All I'm trying to do is put some fairness into the process but I guess as
has been the case 1 million times before I end up being by and large
the conscience on this gaming community that has been lacking for
years. Oh I can't wait for all those poeple to come play LA at the store
and them run away and hide when the call for someone to eat a mod
for the players to play and have the next gameday is put out. I suggest
you stand to the side Peter - I would not want you to get trampled as
they flee for their lives.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Re: A 4 player table is kinda slim

Postby Ozymandius » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:17 am

thetrickygnome wrote:Disclaimer ahead of time: For those of you whose egos are so big that
you think you can walk into any mod and own it 24/7 I suggest you
take that sh*t somewhere else because your arrogance doesn't mean
crap to me.

Peter, I know you want to get people going to this store but a 4 person
table for an LA mod is something I would not recommend, given that
it puts a heavy burden on each of them when a 6 person table is more
evenly balanced. Just my opinion of course. Good luck.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso


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Postby grey » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:53 am

No you're not that good.
You're just persistent.
Kinda like the hero that doesn't know when to lay down and die.
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Postby Ozymandius » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:43 pm

Same Difference.
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Peter, list the address of this store

Postby thetrickygnome » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:37 am

Peter, I'm not sure if you did this already but you should list the
address of this store so those wanting to attend can know where
it is. I have the card at home I think in one of my notebooks but I
have to check on this.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Peewee » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:57 am

I passed by the store this sunday

by what I see they are two weeks away from opening, so no rush.. I'm going to call them today and see whats up.

Once I get conformation I was even going to put up a google earth pic of the location, its VERY easy to get too.. and nice new strip mall.

The place is not much bigger then sunshine by what I have seen...

BTW we ran the slot 0 this sunday.... the story is very cool, and more then a little sick... TY Nice for running the slot 0

Keven & Mario please go to http://www.livingarcanis.com and download the mod so you guys can review it for the game day.
Peter B
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Paradigm Concepts

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.”
- Thomas Jefferson

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Postby Griffman » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:36 pm

Seeing as how I don't want to read through the short the novels that Rene has posted, could someone tell me what module is being run in a couple weeks?
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Postby Peewee » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:18 pm

Griffman wrote:Seeing as how I don't want to read through the short the novels that Rene has posted, could someone tell me what module is being run in a couple weeks?



lol ya bro here is the name and blurb

LA-SP5-11 Flowering of the Blood Vine

[i]A voice, strained and scratchy, called out a warning. “Into the rising dark a tide of blood will ebb and flow. Only the flowering of the blood vine to herald this doom, and none to pay the costs that must be paid to stem this terrible flow.â€
Peter B
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Paradigm Concepts

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.”
- Thomas Jefferson

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Postby Needles » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:47 pm

Griffman wrote:Seeing as how I don't want to read through the short the novels that Rene has posted, could someone tell me what module is being run in a couple weeks?



When is this mod being run? I didn't see anything new with the first post.
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