Some bad news for Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,...

Arcanis

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thetrickygnome
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Here's perspective for you...

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:28 pm

Okay Peter, here's what I mean by perspective:

A typical party of 5 people who play LA with each other on a semi
regular basis:

Myself, Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,, PJ, Matt, and Ramon

Before I say anything let me put a Disclaimer on what I am going to
post. These are my observations and partly based on factual info.

1) Ramons PC is a Elori of the fire-god bloodline. He is very proud,
often to the point of arorgance, about this ( which is typical for them
I believe ). Apparently, he is convinced that what Neir did to his god
by consuming him was an abomination and an grievous insult to his
people.

2) Matt's PC is a hardcore Neirite. As much as I despise to admit it, he
plays his PC very well. I've never seen LG be played so villianous
IMHO, except by worshippers of Pholtus in LG. He is constantly making
cracks about how Nier ate the Elorii fire god to Ramons face, goading
him to anger. Matts PC has also made it abundantly clear that he hates
Milandisians. The tensions between the two is at times almost tangible.

3) Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,'s PC is a die hard Milandisian. My PC, at best, tolerates him
( which is a big upgrade from the loathing I had for him at the start
of the campaign when he treated me like an animal ). I respect his
adamant dedication to Milandir which is why traveling with him is not
completely bad. Both his PC and mine are the constant brunt of jokes
and insults by Matts PC, especially with regards to the assault on
Milandir by the Sword of the Heavens when trying to go to the Citadel
of Silence. Again, he does not hide his loathing of Milandisians.

4) My PC is also very dedicated to Milandir as thanks for the Suplur
Marsh. Yet I did "Wrong Turn At Coryna" and in addition to what I saw,
I carry evidence that makes me beleive that the Black Talons are not
being told the complete truth. To further frustrate the problem, the
Matriarch comes back, young again and says "Hey guys, we need to
leave the Suplur Marsh and go to Coryan and let's hook up with Yig."
So if I refuse, chances are I will be branded a traitor. I usually end up
adventuring with Matt's PC who delights in the subtle torments I
mentioned above with regards to Milandir. I really don't like his PC
which I suppose means he is playing him well. If you did not have
the "No PVP" rule in LA, we would have gone after each other a long
time ago, and perhaps with regard to Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, at the beginning of the
campaign, his PC as well. Granted I would have lost because they'd
used magic against mebut that's niether here nor there. The point is
that Matts belief in the ways of Nier are like adamantium and oppose
many of our party members on many levels.

5) PJ's PC- Oh boy, where do I start with him. This is a guy who can no
longer hide his motivations to to the fame points he has. He has, on
MULTIPLE ocassions, lied to, betrayed, swindled, and manipulated
his fellow party members, even at the risk of their lives. At the Origins
BI, he flat out admitted that he was willing to sell out Ramons PC to
the Harvesters for what was deemed "the greater good.". Gee I wonder
how Ramons would feel about that? To PJ, it was the right thing to do
because the ends justify the means but I'm sure Ramon's PC would not
appreciate being turned in to the Harvesters as a pawn for political
gains, especially if Vals were the ones getting the upper hand as a
result. PJ's loyalites are fluid and his allegiance or betrayal is a matter
of convenience and personal gain.

So with regards to right and wrong in LA.

Who is right and wrong: Ramons PC for hating Matt's PC because of
the death of his god or Matt's PC for being proud of Nier consuming
the Elori fire-god because it was necessary?

Who is right or wrong? My PC and Ralphs PC because we hate Matt's
PC as a result of his hatred of Milandisians and because not long ago
they devastated a part of Milandir and get it rubbed in our faces every
time we play or Matt because his belief is that we Milandir should have
just let the Sword of the Heavens march an entire army through
Milandir so he could reach his destination more directly?

Who is right or wrong? Was PJ doing the right thing when he was
willing to sell out Ramons character to the Harvesters, knowing that
Ramon has multiple notices on him that mark him as badly wanted
by the Harvesters because sacrificing Ramons PC was for what he
beleived was the greater good or woudl Ramon have been right in
refusing to sacrifice his PC that way regardless of whether he was
told it was for the greater good. Would Ramon have been right or
wrong if he chose self-preservation?

The answers to these question are all a matter of perspective, depend-
ing on whcih PC you ask. There motivations and allegiances, because
of the nature of the LA campaign, are extremely complicated. Heck,
even the nature of good and evil in LA is a blur ( which is unfortunately
kinda like real life these days ). So for you to claim that one action,
choice, or perspective in LA is right or wrong I think that is kind of
hypocritical. You've created a world where a paladin of Nier will
slaughter a town of people if it is the word of Nier, where a city full
of evil undead is tolerated, and where an arrogant despot of a leader
can murder a good man before thousands of people and yet to many
he is a saint and perhaps the closest thing to Illiir walking the face of
Onara today. Where does the gauge of right and wrong in these
examples fall - I think it depends on who you ask and that is what is
called perspective.

LA's complexity is its greatest strength but IMHO one the things that
often causes derision for the playerbase. Time and time again LA has
blurred the line between the conventional perception of good and evil
and right and wrong. So when you sit there and say that Matt made the
wrong choice, all I say is this... " According to who? "

As for Ralphs PC, yeah, he should not have done the mod with that PC
but it is all he had for that level. In that repsect I cannot blame him.
He did it anyways and part of me thinks he was a dumb as for doing so
but another part of me applauds hims because it was a magic item that
made him look and be treated like a monster. Looking at it from a
perspective point of view - the Inquisition's perspective put's Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, in
the wrong even before they know anything about why Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, has the
item on him as well as their religiously fanatical beliefs. In Ralphs PC
perspective, he is cursed and it was not willingly so thus he did not
do anything voluntarily wrong so why should he be treated like a
criminal. Who is right and who is wrong here?

Again, it's about perspective. This is the allure of Living Arcanis, the
complicated weave of alliances of the heart, power, God, and country.
So Peter, I don't buy into Matt making the wrong choice. In Living
Arcanis it is never that simple. If you don't beleive me then ask
Felician Val'Mehan or Menises if this is true. Oh wait, that won't be that
easy considering they're both dead, each died I here because of past
choices.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Peewee » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:37 pm

and thus I will shet up

no way I can follow that thread.
Peter B
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Paradigm Concepts

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.”
- Thomas Jefferson

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Postby Griffman » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Wow Rene you just summed up the player drama in LA beautifully. *Hats off to ya*
-Matthew Tearle

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. — Denis Diderot

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thetrickygnome
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Hmmmm...

Postby thetrickygnome » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:37 am

Rene's character is too honest for his own good. He wears his feelings on his sleeve and it gets him in trouble. I have seen nothing bad come from him but I do know that he is a lizard and that slimy things are capable of all kinds of devious things. Yet every opportunity he has had to betray me he has not. Not to say he has not voiced his displeasure about my commentary regarding the race of bipedal and talking iguanas. I view comments of this kind not as insults, more as observations. I jibe in a friendly way with this creature but I think that when it comes to integrity, he will stand on his two feet and face his fate before turning his back.


Hence the reason my PC is doomed to pain and failure in Living
Arcanis - because I am not willing to stoop to the level of duplicity,
manipulation, treachery, selling out party members for fame, glory,
or great personal gain. Other people cheat, bribe, steal, lie, and
( in the case of Larissans ) they screw their way to the top. If I didn't
sell out the life of a young boy to the Harvesters in my first LA scenario
even though the Hawk were telling me to hand him over and look the
other way then I think that first LA adventure and the choices I made
pretty much define my PC. I know that Leatherback will be maligned,
ridiculed, and stepped on by others who are incapable or unwilling to
take the high road but that's okay.

A very common misconception amongst people regarding my style of
play is that I cannot play the manipulative and betraying style of PC
that PJ plays or the hardline "my way or the highway" style PC that
Matt plays. That is entirely wrong. The truth is I CHOOSE not to play
that style of PC to avoid party hostility and because I find it distasteful.
If I had to play one though, I know I could.

And Ramon, I know what you said about PJs PC but I don't buy it. Had
he sold you out to the Harvesters and something bad happened to your
PC ( as if being captured by the Harvesters because you were sold out
by someone you associate with constantly was not bad enough ) I think
you would be singing a different tune. As for Matts PC, if he plays his
PC as he always has and that is "Nier and the Erdukeen first and f*ck
everyone else" ( which is exactly as he should play him - hat's off to
you Matt for your PC being to amazingly obnoxious ) then I think you
will end up with the short end of the stick. But jsut as you mentioned,
these are my observations as well. The lizard jokes bug me but if you
had been with LA from the start when me, Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,, Art, Ruben, Laz, &
a few others had been there, the callousness of Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,'s lizard & animal
jokes against me would have made your skin crawl.

LA is designed for those who do what has to be done to get ahead, no
matter what it takes or who you have to crush, steal from, lie to, back-
stab, or kiss ass to, manipulate, strong arm, bribe, or coerce.
Unfortunately, my PC is not and never will be one of those people so
in the end I lose but it's no big deal. I am at peace with this.

Like I said before. It's about choices and perspective. I've made mine,
for better or worse.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Ozymandius » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:02 am

Uh Ramon I don't pretend to be a high and mighty Val. I'm simply a man on a mission, and that mission is whatever job I take day in and day out. Think of me as a mercenary, I'll work for anyone as long as the price is right and I get what I want in the end. As for being noble, well I'm more like an evil noble, like a George W. Bush noble; I'm into control, power, control, and did I mention power?

The only thing I have a hard time selling out to is the Emerald Society. As a Meta-Org they are only one of two things I won't sell out, I make compromises once in a while, as it happened at Origins and Matt can attest to, but there is precious little else. The other is other players at my table DURING the Battle Interactive. Before and after is a different story, but while at that BI I'm not going anywhere and I'm going to need the other five players help to get through it.

Now, the other thing I've gotten a little more into these days is the Inquisition. I was able to remove that disfavor of the Inquisition during the last Social Interactive where I worked for them. I was able to remove the mark, along with a hefty donation to their cause, and then to prove that I was sincere I had to go out and identify every val'Emman in the social.

Well I found them, all two of them, and then they were assassinated for being heretics. The Inquisition moved up a notch on my respect meter when I saw that happen.

In regards to other players, yeah most of the time I'm using you guys if our goals run contradictory or you're too blinded by your background to see the larger picture (i.e. see Ramon and the religions of Cadic and Larissa). But that was an isolated case, the only one I know that happened that way, and in the end, Ramon should no longer have cause to be angry over what I did during that module before Origins.

While we stopped the humans and Val from gaining entrance into the city and at origins the Elorii nation GAINED ALTHERIA AS A PROTECTORATE! My own home nation now sold out to the Elorii. What a twist of fate.

Besides I've learned trust goes both ways don't be so free to give it if they won't swear an oath to it. Because if I break my word or he breaks his word, then the penalties are far worse than a simple, "Dude you sold me out!"
- Philip Slama

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"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Postby Peewee » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:11 am

Rene

I want you to GM a table with my cleric in it, I think you may be surprized that you are not the only "too honest for his own good" character arround.

My guy tells the truth when it would be a LOT better to lie, and you always know where you stand with him...
Peter B
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Paradigm Concepts

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.”
- Thomas Jefferson

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I won't DM LA

Postby thetrickygnome » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:51 am

Rene

I want you to GM a table with my cleric in it, I think you may be surprized that you are not the only "too honest for his own good" character arround.

My guy tells the truth when it would be a LOT better to lie, and you always know where you stand with him...
_________________
Peter B


I'll DM Blackmoor and LG but I won't DM LA. Too much emotional
baggage for that and you know what I'm talking about. I'm cool with
playing LA, even though know that the style by which I play my PC is
puts me at a disadvantage most of the time. I hear what you're saying
but like I said before - in LA, the only guy I trust is myself. It's not
worth me putting my faith in anyone else, except maybe Elabac and
it's probably only a matter of time before he gets hosed as well. ;(

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Ozymandius » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:34 am

Peewee, The Stat Monkey God,, The Stat Monkey God, wrote:Rene

I want you to GM a table with my cleric in it, I think you may be surprized that you are not the only "too honest for his own good" character arround.

My guy tells the truth when it would be a LOT better to lie, and you always know where you stand with him...


Rene before you play with this Illirite "Holy Than Thou" character please remember he worked with the val'Basuiscz during the Battle Interactive with me and helped seal several of the deals.
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

Email: Finn_Durandall@Hotmail.com

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Exactly

Postby thetrickygnome » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:22 am

Rene before you play with this Illirite "Holy Than Thou" character please remember he worked with the val'Basuiscz during the Battle Interactive with me and helped seal several of the deal
s.


Hence the reason I said "I trust no one but myself". Anyone that deals
with your PC on a regualr basis can't be a very good person. ;)

At least I know that sooner or later your PC is going to screw me PJ.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. ;)

Anyone who thinks your PC has not done heroic things in the past is
a fool. But of course you would do heroic things and save the world.
Aside from choosing the path of undead, if you are not alive or the
world is destroyed, then you would have no one or no reason to
backstab, bribe, and manipulate your way to the top.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Ozymandius » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:44 am

I tried to go undead, it would seriously improve my AC...
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Postby MorganWolf » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 pm

you did try years ago when my daughter played, but she beat you to it when she won the full-page cert to become undead.- remember

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Postby ScrollMasterRob » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:06 pm

Rene, I'm sooo hurt. You wouldn't trust MY lifewarden to watch your back and keep you alive? I'd like to think my lifewarden has never screwed anyone over, inquisition paladins aside.
Breaking mods with disposable items.

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Sorry Rob - it's the nature of the world

Postby thetrickygnome » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:18 pm

No offense to you Rob but it's just the way I feel right now and have
felt for a while. I would not mistreat your PC because you have been
a good person towards me but the only way I can be assured as much
as possible of not getting screwed over by someone in LA is to watch
my own back and trust no one.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Ozymandius » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:58 am

The above post was brought to you by the guy who wasted an hour of my time in a module tracking a "false lead" and then blew the module.
- Philip Slama

"Sex is like the death penalty. One outcome, multiple ways to carry it out," -Stephen Colbert.

"OMG I can't believe I just got censored on LC.net!!!111 IS ADOLFO SEEING THIS sh*t!!!" -TheWorldsGreatestWarrior.

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Postby The Heretic » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:32 am

Wow this all started with us deciding that Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,'s lizard needed to die.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes-----Gotthold Ephraim Lessing

"The measure of the homeland’s independence can be gauged by the amount of independence enjoyed by her children, and, as we have already said, there can be no free homeland while her children are slaves."-----Enrique Roig de San Martin


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