TOP 10 THINGS OVERHEARD AT GENCON

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Postby MorganWolf » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:43 pm

Did a war wizard die in your presence?

Hello Tad, finally this can be cleared up, I hate subterfuge especially from someone(not meaning you at all in any way, Tad) who thinks they know what constitutes behavior when that person can't even control themselves in any way. All you have to do is call me and at least I can tell you my side of the story!!!!
You mentioned things get resolved at the table since this crap comes from another day, their point is invalid anyway.
The question above is not even remotely a fair way of asking because the question asked should be "why did a war wizard die in your presence?" who's fault is it?, what happened that he died, and so on.
I am sorry to say that P.J.'s wizard is a incompetent member of the wizards cabal and has repeatedly mentioned to many adventurer's that she is in it for opportunity only and has even confessed OUT OF GAME that she was an egg of coot agent who was sent back from your own module Tad to serve them if she could live, is that the actions of a TRUE wizard of the cabal. Even other party members and a few of them wizard cabalist's have mentioned that they don't like playing with that character because it has its own agenda and is not a party-oriented, the only time that character is party-oriented is when its own goals are to be met and that doesn't neccessarily mean wizard cabal objectives either. On many occassions she has put party members at peril by putting them in her own area of effect spells just to make sure she casts her spell even to the protest of the party. This individual (THIS IS MEANT WHOLEHEARTINGLY) is and always has been a danger to the party and others and I have said so on many occassions, but alas even my superiors have done nothing about it ( the modules don't contend with misbehavor and DM's don't know what to do in that regard).
She is insane and rushes headlong into the situation not caring what happens to her person and this can be verified by others, whether i'm standing in front of her or not she will rush ahead to do her stuff everytime going past any defenses we put up to protect the party.
If you want an account of what I did every round here it is.

ROUND-1

a wall of force was thrown up by p.j. 's wizard and we all flew up to it. my action was to "truestrike" to make sure I hit whatever I needed to hit.

ROUND-2

I flew over the wall of force and targeted dispeled the opponent who had many buffs still left. the dispel failed( i rolled like crap and didnt make it.


ROUND-3

The opponent was flying away from the party and his opponents(OH SO MIGHTY ramon paladin, druids animal companion and even Ed's war wizard had him surrounded briefly so he flew opposite direction of them) and I flew towards him but had a thug in front of me to get to him so I attacked and killed the thug on my way


ROUND-4

The opponent flew behind cover so noone could target him including me. I took my move toward his direction but being in heavy armor and him with none his cover area was not enough for me to cover that distance.

ROUND-5

The opponent came out blasted me with the surrounding area(read mod to know what object) and then cast "finger of death" on P.j.

The arcane warrior class are the shocktroops of the wizards cabal but we we are also taught magic- therefore an intelligence requirement which means we dont play stupid and calculate according to the situation what to do. I have played at many of your tables Tad and you know I am not a coward by ANY MEANS or did you forget you even wrote on my logsheet that "I was a champion" for attacking the adfridi stronghold headlong, I also remember in your own mod about the egg of coot how I faced the caster alone for a round while lady sarah and the others were too busy in a pit getting out. I know what I can and cannot do but the errors of others cannot be put upon others. I can and will die for the wizards of the cabal, but I will not be a reckless fool without abandon.
If ramons paladin is any indication of a witness for that fight then the wizards cabal has more problems than I thought. She has a record for aiding and abetting sorcerer's and guess what, that was with you DMing that I got him taken in and proved by his own statement that he disagrees with cabal law's also it was written by you that he aided a sorcerer, so if anyone is a dedicated arcane warrior in this game I challenge anyone playing one to truly represent what it means to be one.
I have done no wrong and this is a useless argument to even accuse me of anything. I'm sure you will see those who were in my party stand up for me, I mean those who aren't dead or sorcerer lovers.



ASK ANYONE THEY KNOW I DO!!!!!

I told those who have no idea- the FU because they like to talk sh*t, I'm afraid that we have people who dont want the hassle of playing an arcane warrior because they might not be liked in a party- booo-hoo those are the people I call cowards who talk sh*t about my character but dont have the gall to try one.

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Postby Dwraith » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:11 pm

I backup by Dwarven brother with his claim. Also he know he has the backing of the church of gear and one of it high priest backing him up.

Also as a Stormtro... I mean Shocktrooper you call your self, you should have taken the hit for Lord Va... I mean Pj WarWizard. It's your charge to keep him safe.


Also Stop giving Mod info, your ruining it for other people that have not played certain mods...


Also i don't want to play an arcane warrior because there are enough dicks in the world, why add one more to the sausage fest....
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You reap what you sow

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:38 pm

I am sorry to say that P.J.'s wizard is a incompetent member of the wizards cabal and has repeatedly mentioned to many adventurer's that she is in it for opportunity only and has even confessed OUT OF GAME that she was an egg of coot agent who was sent back from your own module Tad to serve them if she could live, is that the actions of a TRUE wizard of the cabal. Even other party members and a few of them wizard cabalist's have mentioned that they don't like playing with that character because it has its own agenda and is not a party-oriented, the only time that character is party-oriented is when its own goals are to be met and that doesn't neccessarily mean wizard cabal objectives either. On many occassions she has put party members at peril by putting them in her own area of effect spells just to make sure she casts her spell even to the protest of the party. This individual (THIS IS MEANT WHOLEHEARTINGLY) is and always has been a danger to the party and others and I have said so on many occassions, but alas even my superiors have done nothing about it ( the modules don't contend with misbehavor and DM's don't know what to do in that regard).


Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami,, I hate to break it to you but it doesn't matter if PJ's wizard likes
to douse himself in lantern oil just before charging an elder fire elemental.
The point is it's YOUR JOB to keep him alive and if you are afraid that you
are playing with a person who plays a wizard recklessly and might put
your arcane warrior in a tough position as a player it is your choice/right
not to play with that person. If you acknowledge that PJ is reckless and
puts himself and others in needless danger and you play a arcane warrior
and he is a member of the Wizards Cabal then you have only yourself to
blame. If Ed was the only person at the table or even Matt playing a
wizard, chances are you would not be in this perdicament. Also, you can't
base any decisions on player knowledge - it has to be PC knowledge and
you did not know AS A PC that he was affected/serving the Egg of Coot so
that part is no defense for you. Might I also remind you that PJ's PC is
C/N alignment so if you expect a logical practiced pattern of conduct from
him all I have to say is... what the f*ck were you thinking? It doesn't
matter what he does as far as fireballing his own party members, acting
recklessly, not being a team player, being greedy, being duplicitous and
here is the simple reason why. Your PC obviously knew and had STRONG
doubts that PJ's PC was not towing the Wizard Cabal party line. You knew
he was more of a wild card that a dedicated member and that being in the
party with him would be dangerous to you and those around you and
possibly put you at risk with the Wizards Cabal. And despite knowing all of
that, the moment you sat down at the table and agreed to play knowing PJ
was in your party, YOU GAVE UP ALL YOUR RIGHTS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT
THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS BEHAVIOR ON YOUR PC!!!

He is a Wizard in Wizards Cabal, for better or worse. You knew how his
PC was. You sat down and played with him anyways. Your job is to protect
wizards of the Wizard Cabal... PERIOD!!! He died on your watch so suck it
up and deal with the consequences of your choices and actions.

She is insane and rushes headlong into the situation not caring what happens to her person and this can be verified by others, whether i'm standing in front of her or not she will rush ahead to do her stuff everytime going past any defenses we put up to protect the party.


Please see above. And knowing this YOU STILL PLAYED AT THE TABLE WITH HER?

Also i don't want to play an arcane warrior because there are enough dicks in the world, why add one more to the sausage fest....


You know I could try and describe why I hate the Arcane Warrior class so
much but I can never find a more appropriate way of doing so than this.
Thank you Mario. ;)

Signd- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Thanos » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:03 pm

PJ died on a technicality. Everyone did their job but due to a poor rules interpretation he ended up dieing. The ultimate respocibility for his death as far as I am concerned is Tad and his Draconian rules,Greg for not amending his log sheet and ultimatly PJ for screwing his character over so he could only get a True Res.

As a DM if someone dieded by a misteak I made I would do everything in my power to make sure the person was brought back even is I had to defy the RPGA or whatever. I have seen a couple times deaths have been overturned after the fact in LG.

Oh There is no way you can say Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, is a coward. If anything he is the Cabal yes man.

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Re: You reap what you sow

Postby Thanos » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:15 pm

thetrickygnome wrote:
And despite knowing all of
that, the moment you sat down at the table and agreed to play knowing PJ
was in your party, YOU GAVE UP ALL YOUR RIGHTS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT
THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS BEHAVIOR ON YOUR PC!!!


That is not really a fair statement. The original table didn't have PJ playing it had ED and Matt. At the last minute PJ was added to the table and Matt was removed. If Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, had walked away from the table then I would say many people would have cried foul as many of us made plans for that game hired baby sitters and drove long distances to be there.

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Yeah, I kinda expected this

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:51 pm

That is not really a fair statement. The original table didn't have PJ playing it had ED and Matt. At the last minute PJ was added to the table and Matt was removed. If Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, had walked away from the table then I would say many people would have cried foul as many of us made plans for that game hired baby sitters and drove long distances to be there.


The conditions outside of the game, while unfortunate, DO NOT CHANGE
what is expected of a Arcane Warrior when they have a Wizard Cabalist
in their party. That is the sad reality of the Blackmoor campaign and it
is why I have always felt that the campaign puts too heavy a focus on
the Wizards Cabal and allows them to exert too much control over the
world. This is a Living campaign so if you want to get rid of the so called
"Draconian" rules established by Tad and the Blackmoor staff, start with
the Wizards Cabal because the root of the issue here lies in what is
expected of a Arcane Warrior in the service of the Wizards Cabal. The
power to change the face of the world is in the hands of the players.

It is no surprise that you would come running to Ralphs defense and I'll
leave it at that. However, we have all been playing Blackmoor for a
while now and Tad has been there from the start so apparently his
"Draconian" rules only seem to bother some people when certain
specific players get smacked by them. This is unfair to the campaign
staff IMHO to take this stance. I've had the Wizards Cabal supremacy
and elitism shoved and rubbed in my face constantly and many times
with arrogant amusement. Well guess what. The rules & expectations
of an Arcane Warrior have hardly changed since the beginning of the
campaign so why are the rules all of a sudden "Draconian"?

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Xylona Ajani » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:50 pm

The point is it's YOUR JOB to keep him alive


Where does it exactly say that specific rule, I'm sure that it says something else like aiding them or maybe even giving your life towards the cabal(thats means the organization, not a specific individual), but that above statement- I find it hard to believe it would say that.

I believe that everyone played their characters the way they always do, I was hiding and richard & ed was casting away. Lady sarah was buffing as much as possible to go into melee and Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, was being tactical and cast his normal spell "truestrike" and p.j. was being as careless as always not considering everyone else and charged in knowing he is not a melee fighter and didn't listen to anyone.
I think this is way off context of what really happened and those who were not there don't really know the circumstances and shouldn't bash people. Its fine that those people don't like the character class but don't say someone played their character wrong when that was not the case.

It is no surprise that you would come running to Ralphs defense and I'll leave it at that

I dont think its fair to say that about richard as he is the most neutral person I know. He's just giving the facts as he was there and thats his point of view as mine are not too far from his.

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Postby lostpike » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:31 pm

Xylona Ajani wrote:
The point is it's YOUR JOB to keep him alive


Where does it exactly say that specific rule, I'm sure that it says something else like aiding them or maybe even giving your life towards the cabal(thats means the organization, not a specific individual), but that above statement- I find it hard to believe it would say that.




Monica, read the book called...THE WIZARD CABAL. Arcane warriors are cops designed to protect wizards and be there footsoldiers. A wizard fell. Not just any wizard, but a war wizard. Technically, no matter what Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, did it still can be construed as his fault.

You are correct in your assumption that an arcane warrior does not have to role play his character like that. However, he should be prepared for the consquences if he doesnt. It is a role playing game after all.
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Paragraph entitled "Other Classes"

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:47 pm

It reads as follows:

"Even though arcane warriors are controlled by the spirit and will of the
Wizards Cabal, they readily accept all other classes. They view rangers,
paladins, and monks as equals. THEY FEEL THAT WIZARDS AND OTHER
ARCANE MAGIC USERS ARE IN NEED OF CONSTANT PROTECTION AND
ACT AS THEIR MORAL ADVISORS AND PHYSICAL SUPPORT."

I believe the words "constant protection" are pretty clear in this regard.

Now this being said, whatever actions that were deemed to be taken
towards Ralphs PC should be handled by a legititmate and recognized
member of the Blackmoor campaign staff ( EX: Tad Kilgore, Stewart
Larsen, Tim Barth, Dustin Clingman, ect. ). If any form of punishment
is doled out by people other than official campaign staff then I truly
believe that these poeple would be overstepping their bounds & should
be admonished. If Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, is going to be raked across the hot colas for
this then it damned well should apply equally for every Arcane Warrior
who does something similiar.

I think Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, was done in by the rules of the game, world, and class in
which he voluntarily chose to take part in. However, if this things turns
into a witch hunt against him just for the sake of making an example
out of him then I have a REAL problem with that. It either applies to
everyone and is enforced on everyone equally or else too bad. Also,
I would really like to see something in the Blackmoor guidelines for
situations such as this. The fact that players in Blackmoor can have so
much power over other players just by virtue of the classes they choose
to play is very disconcerting.

"Magic is life. Life is magic." - By virtue of a wizard wielding magic and
being a member of the Wizards Cabal, they in effect represent the
pinnacle of life for an arcane warrior. It says that an arcane warrior is
supposed to be willing to die in the defense of magic. That being said
what I think it boils down to is that Ralphs PC would have judged which
foe in the battle posed the most credible and obvious threat to the
wizards of the party who are members of the Wizards Cabal. If Ralphs
PC did not go after this specific threat before all other foes and had
ample opportunity and means of doing so then he failed and should've
have been held accountable at the table. Punishing him after the fact
and having it done by non-Blackmoor staff members seems improper
to me.

Signed- Rene' Alfonso

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Re: Paragraph entitled "Other Classes"

Postby Low Roller » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:06 pm

thetrickygnome wrote:It reads as follows:

"Even though arcane warriors are controlled by the spirit and will of the
Wizards Cabal, they readily accept all other classes. They view rangers,
paladins, and monks as equals. THEY FEEL THAT WIZARDS AND OTHER
ARCANE MAGIC USERS ARE IN NEED OF CONSTANT PROTECTION AND
ACT AS THEIR MORAL ADVISORS AND PHYSICAL SUPPORT."

I believe the words "constant protection" are pretty clear in this regard.



Not to be rude....but that seems to be picking and choosing what you want to be said.

"THEY FEEL THAT WIZARDS AND OTHER
ARCANE MAGIC USERS ARE IN NEED OF CONSTANT PROTECTION AND
ACT AS THEIR MORAL ADVISORS AND PHYSICAL SUPPORT."

You must also note that it says "they FEEL"....not "they MUST"

But besides that, if it was a "save or die" situation can he be held accountable for PJ's death? If so, what protects anyone else in that party? or for that matter, anyone in a party that has a character death from being held responsible for a characters death in that regard.

If he took no action against the opponent I could understand why he would be blamed.....but if a caster is out of your threat range and they force someone to save or die.....is it the party members fault?

Sometimes theres just things you can't do and even if you can, there's always a nat 1.

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Okay then

Postby thetrickygnome » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:21 pm

If he took no action against the opponent I could understand why he would be blamed.....but if a caster is out of your threat range and they force someone to save or die.....is it the party members fault?

Sometimes theres just things you can't do and even if you can, there's always a nat 1.


Before I comment on this quote, let me say this. Any arcane warrior,
based on what I have read and with the sheer influence that the
Wizards Cabal has on arcane warriors that does not put forth maximum
effort to save a wizard member of the Cabal is not doing their job. I am
sorry if I sound like a hard ass but the Wizards Cabal are a bunch of
hard asses themselves and this is flat out what they expect out of arcane
warriors. Mind you this is not me saying what I expect but rather me
saying that this is a reflection of the world and the standards by which
arcane warriors must abide by.

As to your comment above, I wholeheartedly agree that if the Arcane
Warrior had absolutely NO means of reaching the wizard to effectively
thwart him as a threat to a wizard win that arcane warriors party who is
being threatened in any way then the Arcane Warrior should be allowed
a pass. However, if they had any means of getting to them and being
effective against the foe who is posing a serious threat to the wizard in
his party ( be it with a potion of fly, tossing a necklace of fire balls bead,
ect. ) and did not attempt to go after that foe in order to prevent harm
of any kind to the wizard in his / her party then that arcane warrior did
indeed fail the Cabal IMHO.

So now the question is did Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, have reasonable means, time, and
opportunity to get to this foe before he killed PJ's character. If the
answer is "No" then he is okay. If the answer is "Yes" then I think he
messed up.

However, like I said before, this matter is for the campaign staff to
handle and no one else.

Signed - Rene' Alfonso

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Postby Ozymandius » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:34 pm

Heh, Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, you took the bait hook line and sinker about the Egg, that's how I know you metagame.

Of course I'm not bitter about the death at all, just remember Miami is down one Wizard, and a War Wizard at that. Ed almost died the same way I did on a fortitude save. Once Ed goes its just Matt as the last high level character. I find it very funny that all the talking went on about my death even though I never commented on it much.

I played the game. Yes there was some insanity with Ramon following me around certain parts of the mod but it was to be expected since no one else had a plan or the initiative to do anything.

When I died it was a logical call on the GM's behalf. Ramon was trashed and was no threat. Ed was the next highest threat as a War Wizard and his damage output. However I was the highest level War Wizard (Level 10) and I did the most damage and caused the most chaos on the battlefield by reducing the effectiveness of the enemy to attack us.

Greg killed me based on pure logic, take out the highest threat level and you work your way down the list.

I don't blame Greg, I don't blame Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, (but I shake my head in dissapointment), I don't blame anyone at the table. I had to choose, step up and lay down the firepower I was expected to bring or play it safe and let Ed or Ramon take a hit for the team and possibly lose their life. I made myself a target and I paid a high price. But based on the situation we could have lost a lot more people. Once you've played the module I'd be happy to explain the situation and the locations of the players.

We had only three visible targets, one got targeted, and one died.

A simple equation with a simple answer. Kill the highest threat on the field of battle.

When your Wizards are causing too many problems they get singled out and wasted if they have no melee protection. Ramon, who I relied on to put pressure on the enemy and keep them off my back did that until he was incapacitated. Monica even stepped up but because of her massive hide (and reduced damage during the combat) didn't pose a threat to them.

Ed knows what I'm talking about, his latest near death experience happened almost the same as mine. Almost identical situations and with nearly the same results, he was saved by a ranged touch attack, something I was unable to get.

But should my character be killed I would not ressurect her. It goes against the spirit of the character. People think that just because you're a valuable asset someone is going to ressurect you, raise dead or something else.

I've got news for everyone.

If two of the five High Spellwise could get assassinated and they didn't raise them from the dead what chance does a War Wizard have of coming back in the Wizard's Cabal.

I made the choice with the character if I got killed I wasn't coming back to the game with that character which is why I argued the point with the Baleful Polymorph. My spell technically functioned but because of a rules SNAFU I ended up dying instead.

A simple problem, elegant in its design, I just hope that all of you realize that when you do play its more than just who's standing where and attacking what; if you aren't aware of the tactical situation and capabilities of the enemy it doesn't matter how good you are you will be killed.

Ask Nice, she's suffered a fate worse than mine.
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Postby lostpike » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:05 pm

No no he doesnt metagame....just like im a sorceror!!!
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Re: Yeah, I kinda expected this

Postby Thanos » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:18 am

thetrickygnome wrote:
That is not really a fair statement. The original table didn't have PJ playing it had ED and Matt. At the last minute PJ was added to the table and Matt was removed. If Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, had walked away from the table then I would say many people would have cried foul as many of us made plans for that game hired baby sitters and drove long distances to be there.


The conditions outside of the game, while unfortunate, DO NOT CHANGE
what is expected of a Arcane Warrior when they have a Wizard Cabalist
in their party. That is the sad reality of the Blackmoor campaign and it
is why I have always felt that the campaign puts too heavy a focus on
the Wizards Cabal and allows them to exert too much control over the
world. This is a Living campaign so if you want to get rid of the so called
"Draconian" rules established by Tad and the Blackmoor staff, start with
the Wizards Cabal because the root of the issue here lies in what is
expected of a Arcane Warrior in the service of the Wizards Cabal. The
power to change the face of the world is in the hands of the players.

It is no surprise that you would come running to Ralphs defense and I'll
leave it at that. However, we have all been playing Blackmoor for a
while now and Tad has been there from the start so apparently his
"Draconian" rules only seem to bother some people when certain
specific players get smacked by them. This is unfair to the campaign
staff IMHO to take this stance. I've had the Wizards Cabal supremacy
and elitism shoved and rubbed in my face constantly and many times
with arrogant amusement. Well guess what. The rules & expectations
of an Arcane Warrior have hardly changed since the beginning of the
campaign so why are the rules all of a sudden "Draconian"?

Signed- Rene' Alfonso


Let me put it in perspective. A character that was played over 3 years was permanently removed from the campaign because a judge made a simple misteak. Tad ruled that there was no exceptions. I think if a characters is permanently removed from a campaign he should be allow a review if a judge makes a misteak. I think that not allowing a review when the character died and was permanently killed because of a technicality is Draconian. I am not sure what any of that has to do with Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, being an arcane warrior or 1/2 of what else you said. Not for nothing Renee when comes to Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, what you say is hardly impartial. You are gunning for him all the time.

I will say it again Ralph, The Godfather of DnD in Miami, isn't a coward I have played with him many times.


Let me just say I have nothing against Tad or anyone else. I think both Tad and Greg are great assets to the Blackmoor Campaign and both are heck of a lot better DMs then I will ever be. I enjoy playing with them a lot. I just think it is unfair not to give PJ a review of his death even tho it is after the fact. A character being permanently killed from the campaign on a technicality is not something that happens very often so I don't really buy the "flood gates will be opened argument." I hope any player that gets his character permanently killed by a rules error would receive the same consideration.
Last edited by Thanos on Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby lostpike » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:23 am

I thought he wasnt permenantly removed. It was his personal choice not to bring his character back.
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the wildest tales."

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