Looking for Cheese Weasel opinions

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Adonis
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Looking for Cheese Weasel opinions

Postby Adonis » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:26 pm

Since this site doesnt have a RPG general discussion thread, I'll post this here.

Alrighty guys, I consider some of the miami crew to be some of the most crazy and insane stat-monkeys currently in existance. I'm sure some of you are following the 4th edition information threads out there, and Im sure others have the SAGA starwars edition, which is the 4th edition precursor.

SO here's my dillema, and what i see, unfortunately I seem to be the only one worried about this.

First off, 2 known facts about fourth edition.
1) Wizards now make attack rolls for thier spells. Yes you now roll a D20 tosee if you hit someone with a fireball, and yes you can crit.

2) Consequently, Saving throws have been converted to defense abilities, ala SAGA edition. Most probably a fixed number dependant on your class, level and ability scores. IE you no longer roll a saving throw, its a fixed value on your sheet that the attacking wizard has to beat. Pick up a SAGA book to see how this works.

Ok here's my dillema, and all you cheese weasels, im looking at you.

It seems like in any given system it is WAAAY easier to increase a single stat on one character as opposed to multipple stats on multiple characters. In this case it seems like it would be really easy for a mage to stack the proper classes, feats, skill, magicical buffs, and magic items (we already know there are +X wands out there that increase your magic attack roll) to create a character with an abnormally high Magic Attack Roll for his level. Since he is now facing static Defenses (for example a Reflex defense score), doesnt it seem that the wizard could easily jack his attack roll well above the standard defense at his current level?

I know this is mostly speculation, as we have yet to see how spells work in 4th edition, But i forsee specialist characters tossing fireballs that totally obliterate creates of the appropriate level. Or worse yet, NPC wizards who blast the party and roll high.

DM "OOps my wizard just rolled a 20 and crit with his fireball. Since hes +8 that s a 28 total"

Player: Oh Oh! do i get a save?

DM "Nope, Whats your Reflex defense score?"

Player 1 "Umm 16?"
Player 2 "15"
Player 3" 17"
Player 4 "16"

DM "Hmmm well it looks like my 23 beat all of your scores....WEll you take critical fireball damage......"

TPK :(

Actually this worries me less than the reverse, where a player stacks his rolls and laughs maniacally as he lobs fireballs at the hordes of goblins who have no chance in hell of resisting.

*shrug* what do all you number crunchers out there think of the entire Wizard rolls once and checks against the targets Defense score? Do you see room for abuse? Granted it makes the game faster, but sh*t i LIKE rolling dice. i LIKE the trill of rolling a save ina tough situation.

Opinions?
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Needles
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Postby Needles » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:27 pm

I can't truly say since we don't know how the system is fully. I think your right about the defense though if it starts at ten. If it starts at 25 then, that is something else. I remember in the last days of first edition or the beginning of second edition thereof, you could crit with a fireball. However, they have changed the fireball so it does less damage. It no longer is a d6 a level, it is different now and much less threatening.

Something I learned about 3.5. If you don't crack out all the characters with awesome ability scores, I don't mean using something like 28, or a 32 point build. I mean using ability scores where the party has a few 18's, a few 16's and a few 15's. The spells are sort of static for the spell users.

If the party has uber hit points or average hit points the wizard spells remain the same threat; Therefore; they are less threatening with uber characters compared to average characters. The difference may be in the DC of the opposing Wizards save. It may be super high. Like Radden Goss, his DC's could have been even higher.

My point is if they make Wizard spells softer, then they are making the spells easier to survive by. The Wizard character is less potent compared to the 3.5 Wizard. We'll see about this defense thing.
There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

First God created idiots, he was just getting started, then he created Wizards of the Coast 4e Dnd.

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itit01
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Postby itit01 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:29 pm

wait till 4th ed comes out
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teknoblade
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Re: Looking for Cheese Weasel opinions

Postby teknoblade » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:40 pm

I cannot imagine that this possibility hasnt been considered, but seeing that all the players will be starting out at 1st level again the problem will most likely be solved in the same manner they currently do. With revisions to the published rules like errata and faqs. One must also consider that with changes to the base rules the magic items which will cause most of these problems will be revised themselves. Not to mention skills, feats, and class abilities. I look forward to see more of 4th edition in the hopes that they did in fact make the game easier for the freshmen but hope that they took time to consider the graduates that have been playing the game for a long time. This of course appies to all the gaming systems.

Again cheese will happen, just as it does today, but with a new system come sollutions to old problems and unfortunately a few new ones...

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